Flexible New Deal | New Deal Scandal: Leading Welfare Reform Concerns

As it can sometimes be hard to find contact details of the Jobcentre Benefit Delivery Centres they are listed below.

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1. 1

   

   Dan says:
   

   June 18th 2009 at 10:06 pm  

   Please note these contact numbers are for the Benefit Delivery Centre which may not be the same place as your town.

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2. 2

   

   Mr Barrett says:
   

   June 26th 2009 at 10:26 am  

   I am on New Deal 25+ IAP and have a formal offer of a full time job starting in Aug 2009.

   The jobcentre say I still have to attend the “Training Provision” until I start work even though they now have nothing to offer me.

   What are my legal rights in this situation??

   Many Thanks

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   • 3

     

     Dan says:
     

     June 26th 2009 at 12:03 pm  

     I can’t give legal advice and I don’t work in such a sector to be an expert. This said I can still give you rough guidance and advice.

     Firstly, I need to know how long you have been claiming for. They can’t fast track you without your agreement if under 18 months.

     Secondly, have you already committed yourself? Such as paperwork filled in and signed.

     If you are signed on to the Training Provision, that provider who wont offer you anything will get a bonus when you leave to enter that full time employment position you were offered.

     Please answer the above and I can advise your further.

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3. 4

   

   Mr Barrett says:
   

   June 29th 2009 at 8:08 am  

   Hi Dan,

   Thanks for that. Yes, I’ve been unemployed for about 2 years and with the New Deal training provider since 11th May this year. I signed the usual papers for this at the jobcentre. I realise I will need to get a copy of the contract and read the small print but I’d be grateful for any advice you could give me.

   Presumably if I just left, the worst they could do is impose a two week sanction and stop benefits for this time but I could contest this with the “Decision Maker” as getting a job seems to me to be a fairly good reason for leaving a provision the sole purpose of which was to get you a job and if they’re not able to offer me anything they would be in breach of contract??

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   • 5

     

     Ipswich Unemployed Action says:
     

     June 29th 2009 at 6:32 pm  

     The DWP wont give you a copy of the contract claiming a Freedom of Information Act exemption due to “commercial confidence” but you are welcome to try if you have any luck with it.

     As far as I understand you are right with the 2 week sanction as being the worse they can do.

     As for a “good reason” it is to my definition but not at the Jobcentre.

     The New Deal has nothing to do with finding employment even though it is their justification – unfortunately we still live in a society where profession still justifies your personal character.

     Unemployed are the lowest on this scale therefore no one will listen. Then having a job increases credibility. Doctors etc. are very credible. Police officers and MP’s are credible even though we know that a good handful of each are corrupt.

     You could perhaps try signing off for a few days maybe even an entire week and making a new claim (NOT a rapid reclaim) and this sometimes work.

     This terminates the paperwork you signed to join the course. You will need to be allocated a NJI interview which is normally scheduled for a week or so time – that is 2 weeks gained…

     If you are lucky you will go back on to “signing on” as you have a new claim and not done enough time to be able to do New Deal, but some Jobcentre Plus offices ignore this and will summon you straight back on to New Deal – at this instance it will not be the course but just to talk with your adviser. You could be looking at between 1-2 weeks to get that interview.

     http://www.newdealscandal.co.uk/flexiblenewdeal/2009/06/22/guide-to-decision-makers-guide-dmg/ states that DMG 34004 mentions any sanction you do get will NOT take place as long as you are back on that New Deal option – this is easier then said as you might not be sent back to do “balance of time”.

     So two options there you could choose but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness of either.

     If doing a new claim I recommend you read this: http://jobseekersadvice.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/jobseekers-agreement/ You may find this useful (if you were sacked or walked out of the job you will get discretionary sanctions of up to 6 months pending your appeal. A good written Jobseekers Agreement can help stop this happening)

     If I can be of any further or greater help, please let me know

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4. 6

   

   Blackpool Lad says:
   

   June 29th 2009 at 11:34 am  

   Mr Barrett,

   I can’t really add anything to what Dan has said, but would suggest something to consider. The training provider will be very keen to claim credit for you getting a job (they get more of our money from the government). When you started the New Deal course with them they will probably have asked you to sign a form agreeing that they could contact any future employer. They will probably tell you this is so they can monitor the effectiveness of the training, but it’s really about making more money and meeting targets. The best thing to do, when you start your new job, is to give a letter to your new employer stating that you are withdrawing your consent for the training provider receiving any information. If you have been happy with the way the training provider has treated you then you don’t really need to do anything. Does anyone know how much training providers make if someone gets a job? I have heard it’s anything from £500 up to £2500.

   Also, it is not necessary to tell the Job Centre where you are working, just simply that you are working and it’s more than 16 hours. Your Personal Adviser will probably say that you need to see them before signing off. I didn’t see mine, I simply filled in the form telling them I was working and then posted it. This affects Job Centre targets and anything that frustrates them can only be good. Let’s face it, they go out of their way to frustrate us!

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5. 7

   

   Ipswich Unemployed Action says:
   

   June 29th 2009 at 6:47 pm  

   Good advice there withdraw consent and don’t tell the Jobcentre anything. NDPA’s are so happy to chat to New Deal training providers and tell them too much information.

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6. 8

   

   Mr Barrett says:
   

   July 1st 2009 at 8:47 am  

   Thanks Dan and Blackpool Lad for your time and advice which has been helpful.

   Best wishes

   Mr Barrett

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7. 9

   

   Mr Barrett says:
   

   July 1st 2009 at 8:53 am  

   PS It seems that my training provider is going to give me the time to do my preparation for my job outside the training centre – about time too! This is legit as I have quite a lot to read up on and there is currently a problem with the availability of computers in the centre.

   Thanks again

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   • 10

     

     Ipswich Unemployed Action says:
     

     July 1st 2009 at 9:05 am  

     They will still get a Job Outcome bonus I bet!

     It is great that they allow you to do that and you are welcome – have you read about the New Deal fraud scandal?

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8. 11

   

   Mr Barrett says:
   

   July 3rd 2009 at 9:09 am  

   To Ipswich Unemployed Action

   The New Deal Fraud scandal isn’t relevant to my situation as they are entitled to release me from the centre to do what I need to do towards preparing for work which I am doing.

   Yes, I expect they will get the job outcome money.

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   • 12

     

     Ipswich Unemployed Action says:
     

     July 3rd 2009 at 10:03 am  

     I understand – personally I don’t pay tax, however, half of this New Deal Scandal campaign is about the waste of multiple billions of taxpayers’ money (the other half about the unemployed people who are unfairly treated etc.).

     I would suggest that it is slightly more relevant to you because when your job starts I assume you will start paying tax, and maybe you wont be paying for New Deal, but I can assure you that you will be contributing to the Flexible New Deal.

     As I stated above it is great they allow you to prepare for the job, however, I am deeply concerned that the Jobcentre allows them to be paid for a 13 week provision that

     a) you wont fully attend
     b) they will not provide the service as they are contracted to – thus being a breach of contract, and thus (sorry those words again!) a fraudulent claim and
     c) taking in to account that 1) you got the job before the course and 2) that mentioned in b above, they are not entitled to the job outcome money

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     • 13

       

       Mr Barrett says:
       

       July 4th 2009 at 1:21 pm  

       To Ipswich Unemployed Action,

       I share your concerns entirely. I think there is a “bums-on-seats” attitude which prevails in these places, although my tutor has struggled to give me as fair deal as possible within the rules of the systen he has to abide by. The individual tutors have been generally very helpful although their hands are often tied.

       That doesn’t justify the system though-accepted.

       I made the same point about contracts to the jobcentre and they said that the contract for the content of the provision is between them and the provider. This should be public information though a and I should like to know what the providers obligations are.

       I’m not in a position to stop them getting their money unfortunately as I say because I had to show them my job-offer letter in trying to get them to release me from having to attend.

       I agree with your points though. If they send me forms asking for feedback I will certainly be making those points loud and clear.

       Regards

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       • 14

         

         Ipswich Unemployed Action says:
         

         July 4th 2009 at 4:41 pm  

         The problem with New Deal (and also the Flexible New Deal) is the course are left open to the providers by quite a lot – a very “flexible” approach…

         This opens a “post code lottery”.

         They are required to make you do job search for a number of hours a week and it is worded “at least” therefore they are “entitled” to give participants 30 hours job search and no work placement if they choose to.

         The time sheets allow them quite a lot of flexibility. Apart from a day of mandatory job search they can allow you to stay at home the rest of the week and give authorised absences which doesn’t count on your absences limit if they wish to.

         Feel free to send me an email and I can assist you further regarding obligations etc. of providers.

         The DWP publishes a guide for providers on their website – this could be of some use.

         In the New Deal contract: subsection 3 under “Provider Obligations” section 3.1, make them bound to following that guidance at all times.

         I personally would wait 3 months and send a letter to DWP asking whether they have claimed for you and explain the circumstances with a copy of the job offer letter.

         Hope this helps.

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9. 15

   

   Mr Barrett says:
   

   July 3rd 2009 at 9:15 am  

   But of course it’s quite wrong in the first place to require someone to attend when they have already found work.

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   • 16

     

     Ipswich Unemployed Action says:
     

     July 3rd 2009 at 10:06 am  

     Totally. The Jobcentre see this as a “training course” while the Decision Makers see this as a “employment course”.

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10. 17

    

    Bert says:
    

    July 9th 2009 at 2:02 pm  

    I think I may have to attend one of these so called “Flexible new deal gulags”. After reading from this site, I am beginning to feel very depressed. What can I do, if I do not want to attend?

    Many Thanks.

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    • 18

      

      Ipswich Unemployed Action says:
      

      July 12th 2009 at 2:15 pm  

      The only real alternative option is to sign off. Of course to 99.9999% of Jobseekers this isn’t an option. I would suggest perhaps (if you can manage) sign off for 1-2 weeks closer the time (a month before – if just 1-2 weeks before its too obvious) then you should be able to avoid it for a while longer.

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11. 19

    

    Chris says:
    

    September 30th 2009 at 3:08 pm  

    Just thought i’d let you know about a problem that became apparent last week when trying to apply for a job.

    The job description stated New Deal participants aged 18 – 24 only could apply. I fit this criteria so i phone Jobseeker Direct Hotline.

    When i gave them my name and N.I.N they said i was not allowed to apply as my records said i was not on ND.

    After unsuccessfully pleading that i was on ND, i spoke to my advisor. Surprise, surprise she hadn’t updated my records properly. I subsequently missed the closing date for applying. Thanks a bunch JCP!

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    • 20

      

      Flexible New Deal says:
      

      September 30th 2009 at 3:35 pm  

      But surely thats unlawful restricting participants who can apply for a job as those being on New Deal?

      I understand why they do it but New Deal isn’t a qualification needed for a job and it is illegal.

      Its like saying you can only apply for a job if your skin colour is black or if you live within half a mile from the workplace.

      There are only certain lawful restrictions – these are age (selling/serving alcohol, insurance purposes, law says so), sex (such as working at a womans refuge), nationality in some circumstances, Right to Work in the UK and industry accreditation (CSCS, SIA). Being on a Government funded scheme is not one.

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12. 21

    

    Chris says:
    

    October 4th 2009 at 1:20 am  

    I agree fully. I’ve only seen those types of jobs once or twice.

    Surely if they wanted a New Deal participant they should use the LEP scheme only and not discriminate on basis of age or length of unemployment?

    One other point of interest… has anyone ever come across scam vacancies advertised in the Jobcentre?

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    • 22

      

      ken says:
      

      October 5th 2009 at 9:01 pm  

      it been suggested in the past vacancies have been held back for new deal purposes,likes of public rubbish litter picking where the employer has a take anyone approach.

      certainly some have appeared that havent shown on the wider system,but theres no proof to suggest they are intentionally held back.

      LEP the local employer partnership details on the DWP website but i couldn’t find any,elsewhere on the net’ is to address a “skills shortage” but only seems to appear on very basic minimum wage jobs i have seem,an exchange of details on “new starters” looking to be without the “new starters” permission as to what data this contains.

      as for scam vacancies never had any of those,i have been sent for a vacancy with a company that started in the area,only someone decided to display vacancies at the jobcentre that didnt exist within it,only finding this out on arrival for interview and received an attitude from the two jobcentre that were carrying out interviews also at the time from a above pub location.with no explanation to why this occurred but were hastily withdrawn later.

      as for the 0845 jobseekers line i personally wouldnt use this,you can be held on in unnecessary conversation at your expense,also its not face to face and given the tendency to readily effect “customers” that its all to easy to say they havent applied for the vacancy and you cannot be sure whats being recorded on the system.

      when applying for vacancies through the employment service never never just send an application form in the post,the times i have seen others in a terrible state under threats of sanction’s with nasty letters saying the employer states they hadnt contacted.

      you must always send recorded delivery more money yes but it will save you the most amount of hassle,it takes around 4-6 weeks for these letter’s to arrive,they are still known to be sent when on new deal when a vacancy is applied for and posted from that location.proof is a must when dealing with the job centre.theres a lot of incompetence out there and you dont want to be a victim of this.

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      • 23

        

        Flexible New Deal says:
        

        October 5th 2009 at 9:35 pm  

        “New Deal Jobs” = Scam.

        They are so the employer can employ someone on a Work Trial basis, then if they are good enough they can employ that someone. The downside is a) The job isn’t even guaranteed and b) The person is only employed after the trial. This is advantageous for the employer as they can get up to a month of free labour and then claim the £2500 “golden handshake” grant. This is a poor deal for the Jobseeker because if they refuse the work trial-come-job they can get up to a 6 month sanction and they will work up to a month fulltime while claiming only benefit.

        In a normal job most employers have a trial period (sometimes called probationary period) while you receive full pay (some employers however increase the wages at a later date after training) and both parties can terminate the employment contract at anytime in that period without notice. The difference is between a New Deal Job and a Trial Period is although neither is guaranteed fulltime permanent employment – one is at full pay and the other is at your benefit rate. The latter being the New Deal Job.

        Jobseekers Direct

        When you apply for jobs advertised online at the jobcentre website and the jobs at jobpoints etc. you have your privacy. When you ring Jobseekers Direct (and get jobs from an Employment Officer when signing on) the information for jobs to apply for become noted under your claim for Jobseekers Allowance which becomes a Jobseekers Direction. Thus when you find out details which might put you off the vacancy you are required to apply for it whether you like it or not.

        Applying for applications

        It is difficult to prove when you have sent out a completed application form via the post unless you photocopy the application form before sending. It would then be a problem storing a copy of every application form, covering letter, email or online application. You could then send everything recorded delivery which will cost too much too.

        Prove it

        If the jobcentre accuses you of something make them prove it. Don’t use it for cases such as when you have posted an application for a job that hasn’t been received as them contacting the employer is adequate evidence. Remember hearsay is satisfactory evidence for the jobcentre too.

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13. 24

    

    ken says:
    

    October 5th 2009 at 11:22 pm  

    the problems associated with applying for and then later receiving “a doubt has arisen about your claim” are worrying,personally i was lucky the very same employer happened to also send a rejection letter which i had kept,others haven’t been so lucky accounts on the net over this have led to money being withdrawn completely which is unlawful this happens when the often young person is often living at home with parents,the mother stating that the application was sent.

    people i have met have had these letters also and its caused real distress as they say they did apply.

    one incident was i telephoned the employer and he did indeed have the paperwork i sent telling jobcentre plus i had not applied and then invited me to an interview.

    its a good point about the jobseekers direct phone line,there isnt an easy way out once connected

    you can come across vacancies that just dont seem right such as “special events organiser at local rail station” you might well think how many are there,on contacting the employer this revealed a zero hours contract,this means though technically you are employed by a company, no events in this case means no pay and that could be for some considerable time,this was not explained clearly by the jobcentre on the initial details and could potentially lead to problems claiming benefits.

    another more common problem is location of vacancy commonly some distance away from where stated,and these should mention that own transport is required.also some require driving licences this is missed also

    it appears that vacancies are not taken locally but in a call center in the cosham/portsmouth area,when the details are wrong the jobseeker feels let down through bad service,the jobcentre then blames the employer for not being specific enough but not enough thorough questions were asked when the vacancy was placed it appears.

    its a good reason also to avoid jobseekers direct,best dealing with a person directly if there are problems.

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14. 25

    

    Chris says:
    

    October 7th 2009 at 2:42 pm  

    Regarding the scam vacancies, i got two jobs from the Jobcentre last year.

    After researching the companies (Chapman Computer Systems and Green Computer) i found loads of forums about them, saying that they would ask you for £25 for training materials.

    Everyone on these forums are advising to stay well clear of these so-called companies.

    Do a google search of “Green Computer Recruitment Scam’ and you’ll see what i mean, the forum is on a site called Gum Tree

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15. 26

    

    Chris says:
    

    October 7th 2009 at 2:56 pm  

    Here is the link to the Gum Tree forum:

    http://forums.gumtree.com/about174185.html

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16. 27

    

    Flexible New Deal says:
    

    November 27th 2009 at 11:32 pm  

    For list of Jobcentre Plus offices and their telephone numbers (all to be replaced by an 0845 number within 6 months) please see http://flexible-new-deal.co.uk/2009/11/27/jobcentre-plus-telephone-numbers/

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17. 28

    

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